Interview with Bob Smietana
Bob Smietana is a national reporter for Religion News Service based near Chicago, covering evangelicals, weird religion, and the changing religious landscape. He is the author of Reorganized Religion: The Reshaping of the American Church and Why it Matters. He is best known for his coverage of evangelical Christianity.
Book: Reorganized Religion: The Reshaping of the American Church and Why it Matters
Q: What’s been the most surprising thing that you’ve seen in your decades as a religion reporter?
I’m surprised always by the steady, persistent, and nimble way that faith plays out in day-to-day life—and the way that religion and relationships can inspire people to do remarkable and hard things.
One day I ran into a dad who was leading a few kids to the car after church, casserole in hand. Now, if you’ve ever spent any time in a church, you know that means either his wife was at home sick or she just had a baby. But it turns out the story was a little more complicated than that. A few years earlier, his wife had been in the hospital room when her friend from Bible study gave birth to a stillborn child, revealing a condition that prevented her from carrying a baby to term. The friend began to look for a surrogate, and this man’s wife volunteered. She had recently delivered when I met him that day. That kind of blessing is remarkable.
Then there’s the other kind of surprise when something new springs up unexpectedly. I tell a story in my book about All Saints Church in Smyrna, Tennessee, a small congregation that was about to close after the pastor and most of the church left in a schism. A new priest arrived, and as he was trying to close the church, a group of Burmese refugees showed up, needing a place to worship. And the church was renewed. Things like this happen all the time.
Q: What was the most challenging aspect of writing your new book, Reorganized Religion: The Reshaping of the American Church and Why it Matters?
Two things. The first was trying to make sense of all the changes happening to churches and the broader landscape. So much is changing, and I wanted to give people a look at the big picture without making them feel overwhelmed. I want people to know that if their church is declining, it’s not their fault. It’s their problem, and they have to adapt in order for the church not just to survive but to thrive. But it’s not as if they failed, or that if they had changed a few things–hired a better pastor or adopted more modern music–the situation would have magically improved.
The other challenge was trying to sort through all the data and all the stories to find the ones that fit best. There is so much good work being done that it was hard to fit it all in.
Q: In your opening chapter, you map out how religious institutions are evaporating. Can you give us a fuller overview of how you understand the perfect storm that is affecting our religious landscape?
Here’s is how I described it in the book:
“For most of history, America has been a mostly white, mostly Christian nation, run mostly by men and where conservative Christian ideas about sex and marriage and money and morals ruled the day. Organized religion was a powerful and well-respected force, and other social institutions often deferred to religious leaders and gave Christians a place of honor and respect.”
Most churches in the U.S., especially white churches in Mainline and evangelical denominations, were built for that world–and it no longer exists, or, more precisely, it is passing away.
Again from the book:
“The country is rapidly becoming a multiethnic, pluralistic, egalitarian nation, where women and men are increasingly seen as equal, where traditional ideas about the nuclear family have been replaced by a more inclusive, LGBT-affirming view of sex and marriage, and where the fastest-growing religious group in the country are the so-called Nones–those who claim no religious affiliation.”
All of this is happening at a time of political, technological, economic, and social change–and a time when people no longer believe in institutions.
These factors have led to a remarkable decline in churches. When I started covering religion for a living in 1999, the average church had 137 people. Today, according to the Faith Communities Today study, that number is 65. Less than half of Americans claim to be members of a house of worship, and if you go to church, it’s likely you are older.
There used to be a saying among new and hip churches–that “this is not your grandmother’s church.” It was a clever line, meant to show that the church was trying new things. But the truth is that without your grandmother, there would be no churches. They are the ones keeping things alive.
There are some signs of hope. About a quarter of churches are now multiethnic, and that number seems to be growing. And new churches are popping up everywhere, but it’s not clear if they will have staying power.
And yet people still need what churches offer–community, hope, a place to turn to in times of crisis, and an organized way of doing good in the world.
Q: As a religion reporter, you’ve had to sit with stories of great darkness, abuse, and scandal within churches. Is the growing awareness of harm done by religion posing a threat to its survival?
The average person goes to a church of 350 people or more, so if you go to church, it’s likely in a big church. And those big churches often are built on the shoulders of a few very charismatic leaders–and if they fall, they take a lot of people with them.
The harm done by churches is driving people away. And often, it’s not the misconduct of leaders that drives people but rather the unwillingness of churches to deal with that misconduct–and to demonize anyone who raises questions.
All of this is ironic–because churches are built on the idea that people are flawed. And because of their flaws, people are called to confess their sins and failings and to make amends for them. Churches have all the tools and teaching needed to do that–and yet they often don’t.
Q: As you’ve discussed at length in Reorganized Religion, community life is such a large part of religion. As you’ve observed so many different communities, what are the hallmarks of health and vitality?
A few things: You have to be able to gather people together and give them something to aspire to, and then you need to give people the tools and infrastructure to help put their beliefs into action.
There’s a church called The Table in Sacramento, which is essentially a reboot of a historic United Methodist Church. The church was aging and shrinking, so they created a new leadership team that attracted a new congregation. The new church is built on John Wesley’s methods and is thriving. They are intentional about spiritual development and creating community. They have a members class where people share their journeys and the pastors lay out the church’s approach to spiritual formation. People then join small groups called “kitchen tables,” where they meet regularly to eat together and talk about how to live out their faith. There’s structure to keep people moving forward that’s coupled with a commitment to being together.
Q: What are some red flags that a faith community is trending in a negative trajectory?
That’s a good question because a church can be doing all the right thing–or at least the things they’ve done for years–and people suddenly stop coming. It could be because their neighborhood has changed or that the methods that formerly helped people find the church don’t work anymore. Every church has to be intentional about finding new ways to connect with people and to make them feel welcome.
But churches are facing so many challenges. In the past, churches were often competing for believers–that is, people were looking to go to church, so a congregation’s job was to help people find the right fit for them. Now, churches have to convince people that they matter. That’s a whole different task. And churches are often so busy just trying to survive that they don’t have time or energy to think about the future.
Q: For churches that may be dying, disillusioned, or distracted, what have you seen to be the best first steps they can take to reorient themselves?
Ask for help. Many churches are unwilling to say, we are stuck and we need help, but that’s the starting point.
Every church leader must also be honest in acknowledging that the world is changing, and they are responsible for learning more about the scope of those changes. The more you know, the more you can be prepared to adapt.
The great temptation in a crisis is to turn on each other. We see this in churches and in denominations all the time, and it always ends poorly. You don’t want to get to the end of a church fight only to realize that there’s nothing and no one left. Churches matter to their community and to the people in their congregations. They are worth investing in, but that may mean they need to change.
Q: If you had to recommend one book to a pastor, what would it be
Reorganized Religion, of course. Then Kate Bowler’s book, Everything Happens for a Reason: And Other Lives I’ve Loved. Oh and Pew Research’s The Next America.